ALBERTO v2

With all due respect may i say, Transformers succeeds in large part because because people like Transformers and Kim actually makes Transformers fans want to buy.
If Ash controlled what Transformers the company made there would be 1,000 colorways of “Mudflap and Skids” because they were the only ones he liked.
And when the Transformers line bombed we would be told that it was being cancelled because “There wasn’t support.”
Now here’s the thing ....
I get AW is an artist and he can make whatever he wants because it’s his company.
I get the “muse”.
I get “the creative mind”.
I get it.
We all get it.
I only ask if we can finally change the language when stuff bombs. It’s not that the fans didn’t support it. It’s that the company didn’t support the fans and make what the fans  wanted.
So many people still want the company to succeed but no longer want to buy expensive things they clearly don’t want in hopes they maybe, might, possibly, perhaps, get something they want years later if they are lucky with absolutely zero guarantee.
That’s every complaint and frustration in a nut shell. It’s not the fans. It’s never been about the fans not giving support, never.
God bless 3A.

It is sad

WWR BIRD wrote:...
If Ash controlled what Transformers the company made there would be 1,000 colorways of “Mudflap and Skids” because they were the only ones he liked.
And when the Transformers line bombed we would be told that it was being cancelled because “There wasn’t support.”
...

ThreeA did release AW's G1 Optimus Prime figs and they are still available from retailers.  All three colorways were bad ass in their own way.  They created a prototype for Megatron that was completely awesome.  ThreeA did a lot of marketing for Prime too, releasing it early to reviewers, showing it at shows, etc.  He got glowing reviews all around, but sadly, there wasn't enough support for him and Megatron didn't see the light of day. Yet they sell thousands of Bayformers?  That's a head scratcher.  What everyone forgets is Asia makes up almost all of their sales.  If they ain't buying, we ain't gettin.  Even when the forum was at the height of popularity, it was less than 10% of sales.

WWR BIRD wrote:I only ask if we can finally change the language when stuff bombs. It’s not that the fans didn’t support it. It’s that the company didn’t support the fans and make what the fans  wanted.
So many people still want the company to succeed but no longer want to buy expensive things they clearly don’t want in hopes they maybe, might, possibly, perhaps, get something they want years later if they are lucky with absolutely zero guarantee.
That’s every complaint and frustration in a nut shell. It’s not the fans. It’s never been about the fans not giving support, never.

It's all about the fans, it always has been.
But that's also the problem.
When there isn't support, even with a releases people asked for since Ashley announced a 1/6 Bertie Mk2 in 2011, threeA has a problem.
And in all honesty I am flabbergasted by the fact sales numbers were so low. Maybe it just took threeA too long to release this guy. I don't know.
Even a new variant of one of the most iconic WWR robots hardly makes half the sales of its illustrious 10 year old predecessor.
This makes it harder to justify something like a Bertie Mk2 classic colorway drop.
Production costs have skyrocketed. You can't sell an edition size of 100 of one colorway anymore without making a huge loss. It was possible in the past. but this isn't 2009, or 2013.

10 years is a long time but I didn't expect the number of original 2009 3AA members who stayed 3AA member for 10 years would reduce to less than 7%. Here in lies the problem, people move on.
The problem isn't the fans, they'll buy.

But in this case threeA needs more than the support of the fans.

What is average edition for Alberto v2?

500-1000, 2000 ?

Maybe there is a way to produce some with more high price tag , like 250-350 usd but makes 100 edition?

if 3A stops making A.W bots but keeps making Transformers it will be really sad.

Albino wrote:What is average edition for Alberto v2?

500-1000, 2000 ?

Maybe there is a way to produce some with more high price tag , like 250-350 usd but makes 100 edition?

I can't answer that, sorry.

(also sorry for accidentally editing your post. Honestly, I didn't touch anything)

Albino wrote:if 3A stops making A.W bots but keeps making Transformers it will be really sad.

I fully agree.
I came here because of the WWR robots.
reluctantly bought one Tomorrow King with those silly shoes.
And now my house looks like a threeA expo.

Books, robots and dolls.

[edit]
But those Transformers sell very well in Asia.
So threeA needs those sales to be able to support other projects.

gar wrote:For Alberto the expected numbers are such that in combination with the calculated costs,
it is simple impossible to sell.

What gar stated. WWR bots sell a fairly consistent amount and sales estimates are based on that data.

Kim, the engineers, and the production side go through and calculate out all the costs and create two or three scenarios with different SRPs with breakeven numbers based on previous sales data. If we do no hit the breakeven point, a single figure release can lose anywhere from thousands to tens of thousands of dollars. And if every release from a single line is underperforming and overhead costs are increasing, then production side are going to have to make the tough decision to put projects on hold or cancel – which is ultimately what happened with the 2000AD line.

As it stands with production costs where they're at, even with the existing molds, and based on the previous sales data, HK need to sell 200 Albertos at $400 a piece to breakeven. Berties sell at $180 each and each one sells less than 200, despite very vocal demand for them. It's a tough position to be in because the fans are there, the demand is there, but the sales numbers are not.

gar wrote:

WWR BIRD wrote:I only ask if we can finally change the language when stuff bombs. It’s not that the fans didn’t support it. It’s that the company didn’t support the fans and make what the fans  wanted.
So many people still want the company to succeed but no longer want to buy expensive things they clearly don’t want in hopes they maybe, might, possibly, perhaps, get something they want years later if they are lucky with absolutely zero guarantee.
That’s every complaint and frustration in a nut shell. It’s not the fans. It’s never been about the fans not giving support, never.

It's all about the fans, it always has been.
But that's also the problem.
When there isn't support, even with a releases people asked for since Ashley announced a 1/6 Bertie Mk2 in 2011, threeA has a problem.
And in all honesty I am flabbergasted by the fact sales numbers were so low. Maybe it just took threeA too long to release this guy. I don't know.
Even a new variant of one of the most iconic WWR robots hardly makes half the sales of its illustrious 10 year old predecessor.
This makes it harder to justify something like a Bertie Mk2 classic colorway drop.
Production costs have skyrocketed. You can't sell an edition size of 100 of one colorway anymore without making a huge loss. It was possible in the past. but this isn't 2009, or 2013.

10 years is a long time but I didn't expect the number of original 2009 3AA members who stayed 3AA member for 10 years would reduce to less than 7%. Here in lies the problem, people move on.
The problem isn't the fans, they'll buy.

But in this case threeA needs more than the support of the fans.

What’s the release fans asked for since 2011 that didn’t have support?

Btw based on previews of the new TKs coming I think it will actually be the opposite of the recent WWR stuff and be very well received. I think fans will be getting something they want and it will sell. Guess we will see. Fingers crossed.

WWR BIRD wrote:

gar wrote:[snip]...[/snip]
When there isn't support, even with a releases people asked for since Ashley announced a 1/6 Bertie Mk2 in 2011, threeA has a problem.
And in all honesty I am flabbergasted by the fact sales numbers were so low. Maybe it just took threeA too long to release this guy. I don't know.

What’s the release fans asked for since 2011 that didn’t have support?

Btw based on previews of the new TKs coming I think it will actually be the opposite of the recent WWR stuff and be very well received. I think fans will be getting something they want and it will sell. Guess we will see. Fingers crossed.

Warbot Bertie. (aka ZvR Bertie)
As Gregory said more talkers than takers. Not that many made.

I really hope new Tomorrow Kings will sell to everybody who fancies it, not just fans.

Well, there're Tomorrow kings; people normally eat that up.

Which reminds me, wonder if anyone got a spare warbot around here? Gonna try and pick one up sometime soon since I missed it originally.

Since i was a talker, not buyer of Warboto (saved funds for later canceld black Dresden Weib)...we "buy later" guys are part of wwr funeral...lil shocked bout the bad sales of Warbot, cause everyone seemed to be hyped and the whole weapon pack was a hell of a deal!
To bad 3A didnt produce a shitload more, to sell later for a bigger penny... always felt 3A toys are most desired wanted ( and wallet opened) when gone...f5 style on the aftermarket. ..legion (my bitter lesson to skip all strigoi drops) should have supported bamba (rip) instead of regreting and buying for big bucks...now we have the result...we stupid legion, we killed Alberto when Bram and Warbot were offered... ps. would take Bram and Warbot ( and any Strigois) now with a handkiss...stupid regretto game...

First off - nothing but love for Gar and Greg.

However there was a statement that 2018’s 3AA numbers were high but sales low.

Maybe because very very little was offered. As early as April I pointed out very little seemed to have been offered across all 3A’s core IP and was told to wait. We did, little showed. Maybe there wasn’t much sold as there wasn’t much to buy. I picked up all the squares released.

Secondly ‘(con) exclusive variants should increase the hype’ - no, they simply pissed off people who paid to be 3aa but who prefered the con version.

I’m sorry for 3aa’s troubles and Greg and Gar certainly don’t have to answer for them but the sales tactics of 3A (limited drops, unfriendly times, random drops, multi-packs, 1/3 figures, con exclusives) might have worked when profits were healthy but they sucked when times were hard. If the artist edition squares had been sold i’ve have bought them. If the SDCC mongrol variant had been sold on bamba i’d Have bought it.... a sale is a sale, you’d have had my money.

When the old forum died so did something great with 3a - a binding spirit and knowledge base we’ve never managed to recreate here. Ash moving to Instagram sucked too - it’s a terrible platform for rapport and information spreading.

Since we're on it I'll be derailing this thread a bit further:

I should have been more elaborate: Con exclusives increased the hype beyond those already knowing threeA and pissed off a sweet amount of threeA fans.
Since the end of 2013 most con exclusives have had Bambaland allotments. Often 3AA exclusive.
(See the threeA toy Catalogue for almost 100% accurate information about this.)
SDCC Mongrol has been available on Bambaland.

Those Track Squares had little to do with Ash, (except for the DDV2 and the DIY DIY)
and were offered as: threezero - STS 2018 / TTE 2018 exclusive DIY Track Square.

I have to agree with your point regarding the forum.
Very active people moved on, even before the switch to this forum.
I really miss Ash on the forum as well , but he hasn't been participating since March 2012 or so...

The years have gone by, haven't they?

When Ash left that was the beginning of the end. When he was here we felt like we had some input, like we were part of ThreeA. After that it was just like a fan forum, just chatting among ourselves. Now it seems like just a handful. And many thanks to Gregory and Gar, without them what little of us are left appreciate any information we can get.
It seems to me con exclusives are designed to bring new people in but at the same time driving current members away.

Just a little more food for thought.

Regarding talkers and buyers:
Jeremy Geddes has something like 120,000 followers on instagram, give or take. And his first art Monograph was just released called seven.seventeen. He announced it would be released in an edition of 2,000 copies for roughly $100 US.

I was certain it'd sell out in minutes. Just a light perusing of the commentary and response for the books has been overwhelming with compliments and people stating how they could not wait. And yet, the last time I checked they are still available for purchase a couple weeks later. I got mine in last week in fact. So it is possible to have a huge vocal following that would lead one to think there might be a blowout coming on a sale. And then the blowout never happens. It cost's nothing to say one is interested. It's entirely something else to actually hit the buy button. Easier to admire on Instagram for free, I guess.

Regarding Transformers and Ash's IP:
I think anyone that thinks Ash would rather make Bayformers more than his own toys is probably mistaken. I think anyone that thinks Ash would rather make 40 colors of a bot or Fang Gal or TK, rather than making a new figure based on a new character is also mistaken.

My personal assumption is that these things are attempts to make the new stuff happen. If a Fang Gal sells out, or if a Bayformer does really well, then that is money that can go back into the business. And that money can then be put towards developing the next thing. That's just how business works. And in the case of 3A, the Bayformers, and before those, the bajillion TK variations, and so on... these things have been about giving the audience what it wants. Truly. And any success of these things has allowed them to produce a number of toys that would never be able to fund themselves, as they are not financially viable.

Pointing fingers and blaming those items seems at least partially misplaced.

It reminds me of the pro-players in the guitar market, being mad at Gibson or Fender for producing super limited edition guitars that are snatched up by doctors and lawyers. Talking about how they aren't players instruments, they are trophies, etc. When in fact it is all the doctors and lawyers and hobbyists that play, and buy instruments regularly that keep those companies open, and innovating. Without those dollars, marketplaces stagnate. Same goes for fashion, sports equipment, etc.

Neither of these points is intended to deflect frustrations. I'm a frustrated 3A fan as much as anybody. I'm here for Ash's IP. His fresh ideas. His pushing the boundaries of his characters and ideas.

I do worry that the intricacies of the Bayformer line, and it's assembly times negatively impacts how much the factory is able to work on, slowing down the schedule. But if all that time is profitable, and the stuff I want them working on isn't, it'd be pretty selfish of me to expect it to go my way.

I realize that the factory workers are there because it's a job. And while I may want Ash and Kim to get back to the old school way of things, they have other folks they are responsible for. And while I miss the fuck the norm, we do things our way punk rock days of the past. Clearly times have changed across the globe for a great many people in the last decade. China's economy has slowed. As have the economies in much of the world. Prices are rising for everything. And I don't mention this to pull in politics, just that it has an impact on their staff.

Are there other ways to operate? Better ways? I'm sure they're trying to figure all that out. Like I mentioned at the top, I expect Ash would rather be dialing in a new figure, than messing about with someone else's IP. But new tooling is money. Sculpting is money. Engineering is money. And if the WWR, AK, Popbot and whathaveyou lines are not able to carry their own load, then piggybacking seems to be their way forward until a better scheme comes along.

Personally speaking, I'd rather see 3A scale way way back. I'd prefer one or two perfect mind-blowingly cool figures a year than 10 releases, where half are late, or having production issues along the way. I'd rather have a Les Mort or Warbot level release than a bunch of colorways of limited vinyl bits and bobs just to have something in the store.

But I'm not Ash, so fuck me.

He'd tell me if I want to do those things, to go out and do it. Not to ape 3A, but bring something fresh and unique to the table and make my own success in whatever path I feel best suits me. It's something Ash has always struck me as keen on. Seeing others do well, pulling themselves up by their boot straps, and making a go of it. 3A started because Ash gave it a go.

Take a look at Geddes. He deserves every ounce of praise he gets, based on his talent and the sweat he puts in. But Ash was there at the beginning, getting him out there, and Jeremy would be the first to tell you this.

The 3A toys I have are a total luxury. In fact, none of it should exist. But it does. I take each nugget of what feels like gold to me, and I savor it. I pass on the stuff that isn't for me. Not because I don't want 3A to succeed, but it's just logistically impossible, as anyone that's been in this long enough will tell you. But I don't feel entitled to more. I'd like it. I'd be happy to house a few more great pieces here at home. But I'll just take it as it comes.

Ash always said if it ever started to just feel like a job, or if it ever felt like it wasn't fun, he'd just pull the plug. I've been waiting for that ever since, and counting the blessings of what I've picked up along the way.From what I understood at the beginning, it never was a money thing for Ash, despite what his detractors seem to think. His entire interest was to make things that he could have for himself at home. Some work. Some fail. But all were undoubtedly fun for him to be a part of somewhere along the way. And he gets to have his thoughts made into toys. Seems like a cool gig to me.

Just my .02¢

Beautifully said ESeffinga! I 100% agree!
2 cents! No! That was priceless!

It's always three dollars and some change when Eric posts

x43x wrote:It's always three dollars and some change when Eric posts

Is it possible that past designs will return for WWR2?
I’ll just leave this here